Monday, December 15, 2008
Brad - Response
Since the day we talked about our re-reading of "Artificial Nigger," I've been paying attention to your paper topic in the other stories. I like how you've incorporated the question of O'Connor's opinions of her portrayal of country vs. city in her works. You've made a great connection between O'Connor's thoughts on the "ever-diminishing South" and her depiction of the "city" representing change. I know that there is a clear difference in the settings of O'Connor's city, and O'Connor's country, but I was wondering if you've thought about looking at the weather and the lighting within those settings? "Artificial Nigger" paints a vivid picture through the sun and the moon, and the contrasts between light and dark. They are completely different in the city than they are in the country, and I noticed that it definitely reflects the characters' moods. I know it's late in the game, but I thought this might help you explain the characters' attitudes towards the "big city." Good luck with the rest of your paper!!!
Response - Bethany
Bethany! I loved your presentation! It is clear that you know exactly what you want to talk about in your paper, and the printout of your outline was extremely helpful. Your approach regarding Porter's autobiographical voice through Miranda's character is really interesting, especially since the question has been raised regarding O'Connor's embodiment of her characters/narrators. What you have so far sounds great, and it's very different from the rest of the class. Good luck with completing your paper!!!
Saturday, December 13, 2008
A final post on O'Connnor's letters
In rereading allot of O'Connor's letters I have discovered that what seemed at first glance to be a woman who wrote out of a passion for writing it seems that her writing was a very clear outlet in defense of her theology, both as a southern writer and as a Catholic. It is amazing the number of times she argues either with the person she is addressing, or with someone she has recently encountered. This just gives me a better picture of her as a person you could interact with and someone who is easier to relate to. Although she is very eloquent in many ways, often she is at such odds with the world, that I can see how she had such a strong literary life, both in her correspondence (in that I think she was more comfortable with expressing herself in letters) and in her stories.
Friday, December 12, 2008
Response to Jennifer
You've got a very compelling topic. Porter portrayed herself a feminist, but does her work reflect that? As you point out, her female characters are typically permissive or promiscuous.
"Theft" in particular, as you say, is great example.
I like your taking on of the internalization of the male gaze, a more insidious and quite common form of sexism. I'm curious how that looked at the time of Porter's writing, when sexism was more overt than it is today.
Not sure how much you're going to look at this, but I wonder how much Porter was attempting to work out these issues for herself in her writing? As a female writer who seemed to have at times been a victim of the subordination of women, and at other times to have been a strong, powerful force, how much was she working through her own issues in stories like "Theft" and "Magic"?
Great topic, and I love the sociological bent you're taking. I think it's very interesting.
"Theft" in particular, as you say, is great example.
I like your taking on of the internalization of the male gaze, a more insidious and quite common form of sexism. I'm curious how that looked at the time of Porter's writing, when sexism was more overt than it is today.
Not sure how much you're going to look at this, but I wonder how much Porter was attempting to work out these issues for herself in her writing? As a female writer who seemed to have at times been a victim of the subordination of women, and at other times to have been a strong, powerful force, how much was she working through her own issues in stories like "Theft" and "Magic"?
Great topic, and I love the sociological bent you're taking. I think it's very interesting.
Response to Bethany
Nice work, Bethany. You've obviously done a lot of research on this, and you've taken a very original approach for your topic.
What stood out for me was your look at Porter's boldness, although she seemed to hold back in her stories despite her belief in freedom of expression. That brings up a lot of interesting questions. Does the counter-culture artist do more good by tempering her voice, but maintaining the ability to continue speaking and reaching a wide audience? Or is the greater good for her to speak freely, even if, in the case of Porter, this could have landed her in jail?
Anyway, I find your topic very interesting, especially the view of "Pale Horse, Pale Rider" through revolutionary terms. It's caused me to rethink that story.
Good luck with your paper.
What stood out for me was your look at Porter's boldness, although she seemed to hold back in her stories despite her belief in freedom of expression. That brings up a lot of interesting questions. Does the counter-culture artist do more good by tempering her voice, but maintaining the ability to continue speaking and reaching a wide audience? Or is the greater good for her to speak freely, even if, in the case of Porter, this could have landed her in jail?
Anyway, I find your topic very interesting, especially the view of "Pale Horse, Pale Rider" through revolutionary terms. It's caused me to rethink that story.
Good luck with your paper.
Responce to Jenifer
Feminism as contradiction is a very cool theme. Narration is always a clear way of seeing the author in her works, I would defiantly look at how the narrator feels about the men, and the language the men use.
Are you going to mention details of her divorces? And are you going to focus more on her critics or her stories?
But otherwise your presentation was clear, and your paper sounds well rounded.
Are you going to mention details of her divorces? And are you going to focus more on her critics or her stories?
But otherwise your presentation was clear, and your paper sounds well rounded.
Thursday, December 11, 2008
Response to Meagan
It was really interesting the way that you considered Laura's position as a familiar outsider in "Flowering Judas." I thought that it was interesting to consider Laura's reltaionship to Mexico as similar to Porter's own relationship with Mexico.
However, I think that you need to spend a lot of time considering the way that the narrative form of "Maria Concepcion" makes the story appear to have been written by an insider. Obviously we have spent a lot of time in class discussing the the way that she appears to identify Mexico as 'hers' but I would be interested to what the body of literary critics has to say about her Mexico stories. I also think that you should try to incorperate some of the letters that she wrote during and about her time in Mexico to see how she felt about her time there.
In all likelihood you have considered the way that "Maria Concepcion" demonstrates Katherine Anne Porter's strong sense of familiarity with Mexico. I'd consider putting some special emphasis on this story and how it is different from "Flowering Judas" because there is clearly a huge difference in style that I think would be interesting to consider.
However, I think that you need to spend a lot of time considering the way that the narrative form of "Maria Concepcion" makes the story appear to have been written by an insider. Obviously we have spent a lot of time in class discussing the the way that she appears to identify Mexico as 'hers' but I would be interested to what the body of literary critics has to say about her Mexico stories. I also think that you should try to incorperate some of the letters that she wrote during and about her time in Mexico to see how she felt about her time there.
In all likelihood you have considered the way that "Maria Concepcion" demonstrates Katherine Anne Porter's strong sense of familiarity with Mexico. I'd consider putting some special emphasis on this story and how it is different from "Flowering Judas" because there is clearly a huge difference in style that I think would be interesting to consider.
Wednesday, December 10, 2008
Response to Meagan
I think this is a very interesting topic. The concept of cultural appropriation is very complex, be it between cultures or, in this case, countries. As you pointed out, Porter's intent was not malicious, but that doesn't change the fact that it does, as you say, exoticize the culture.
You've got lots of possibilities for this paper, and I think it will be very interesting. Here are some questions that came to mind. If these are off topic, disregard, but these are some thoughts that I had:
What are the consequences of Katherine Anne Porter's exoticizing of Mexico? Looking at it historically, was there any resentment or criticism of it in her time? What are the far-reaching consequences? For example, did it contribute to our current view of the Mexican revolution?
What are the modern equivalents? White college kids wearing Che Guevara shirts? American tourism in Latin American countries that are impoverished outside of tourist towns? Ex pats in Nicaragua who are mostly there for the surfing?
(For that matter, is it only exoticizing when it's a dominant culture absorbing the dialect and/or customs of another culture, such as white suburbanites adopting hip-hop lingo or American-run restaurants offering foreign cuisines? But that's another paper altogether.)
Do you feel that Porter truly felt as though Mexico was hers, or do you feel she had some doubt about her place within the culture and tried to work through that doubt in her stories?
You've got lots of possibilities for this paper, and I think it will be very interesting. Here are some questions that came to mind. If these are off topic, disregard, but these are some thoughts that I had:
What are the consequences of Katherine Anne Porter's exoticizing of Mexico? Looking at it historically, was there any resentment or criticism of it in her time? What are the far-reaching consequences? For example, did it contribute to our current view of the Mexican revolution?
What are the modern equivalents? White college kids wearing Che Guevara shirts? American tourism in Latin American countries that are impoverished outside of tourist towns? Ex pats in Nicaragua who are mostly there for the surfing?
(For that matter, is it only exoticizing when it's a dominant culture absorbing the dialect and/or customs of another culture, such as white suburbanites adopting hip-hop lingo or American-run restaurants offering foreign cuisines? But that's another paper altogether.)
Do you feel that Porter truly felt as though Mexico was hers, or do you feel she had some doubt about her place within the culture and tried to work through that doubt in her stories?
Ashley Response: Jennifer, Bethany, Brad. Heather
Author: Please post any questions you want to ask. respondents: please provide constructive feedback for the presentation.
Ashlee betrayal reaction
I like your use of the idea of bate, almost like the serpent and the apple in the garden. The duality of betrayal and faith.
Intellectual- Pride and intellect is for sure apparent and the duality of control and salvation is very evocative, you should defiantly expand on that.
secular grotesque- denial of pain, or is it the denial of responsibility.
Expand on the idea of enlightenment and what leads the characters into the moment of enlightenment or what keeps them from it.
In O'Connor's essay on Mary Ann she explores this idea of the child innocence, and why she chooses to write about the troubled child, or tormented soul rather than encouraging stories on those who accept grace.
Intellectual- Pride and intellect is for sure apparent and the duality of control and salvation is very evocative, you should defiantly expand on that.
secular grotesque- denial of pain, or is it the denial of responsibility.
Expand on the idea of enlightenment and what leads the characters into the moment of enlightenment or what keeps them from it.
In O'Connor's essay on Mary Ann she explores this idea of the child innocence, and why she chooses to write about the troubled child, or tormented soul rather than encouraging stories on those who accept grace.
Response to Dana
Thesis: There is a lack of feminist ideals within the stories of Katherine Anne Porter and Flannery O'Connor
Women are outside of the control of patriarchy. This proposition is demonstrated through the weakness of the male characters.
How does the portrayal of women as being weak verify your thesis? Or maybe I just got the thesis wrong lol. It's hard to get notes down so quickly.
Besides the tying in of feminism to weakness of male characters I really enjoyed your presentation and think your paper is very interesting.
Women are outside of the control of patriarchy. This proposition is demonstrated through the weakness of the male characters.
How does the portrayal of women as being weak verify your thesis? Or maybe I just got the thesis wrong lol. It's hard to get notes down so quickly.
Besides the tying in of feminism to weakness of male characters I really enjoyed your presentation and think your paper is very interesting.
responce to feminism paper
I really liked that you are covering Porter and O'Connor. There is a quote that I think would be useful for you from O'Connor's essay on being a Catholic writer, paraphrased it is something like ' It is a writers duty to be true to reality and not change a character to fit some unrealistic plot' I think this would help as far as trying to explain why O'Connor does not have a "feminist" character. I think it is true that both authors write from their experience and surroundings weather that be from being Southern, Catholic, or women. They are both true to their soundings and it allows their works to occupy the space close to Historical fiction, that is if any of the characters were well known or famous.
The exact quote from page 808 The Church and the Fiction Writer
"What the fiction writer will discover, if he discovers anything at all, is that he himself cannot move or mold reality in the interests of abstract truth."
The exact quote from page 808 The Church and the Fiction Writer
"What the fiction writer will discover, if he discovers anything at all, is that he himself cannot move or mold reality in the interests of abstract truth."
Response to Meagan
You may want to note that the character of Laura was actually modeled after one of Porter's close friends, Mary Doherty. (Though I do agree with you that most of Laura's interactions are autobiographical)
Response to Daniel: Jessica, Caroline, Ashley, Michelle
Author: Please post any questions you want to ask. respondents: please provide constructive feedback for the presentation.
Response to Dana: Heather, Daniel, Sarah, Bethany
Author: Please post any questions you want to ask. respondents: please provide constructive feedback for the presentation.
Response to Meagan: Vince, Brad, David, Austin
Author: Please post any questions you want to ask. respondents: please provide constructive feedback for the presentation.
Tuesday, December 9, 2008
Response to Sarah
Excellent job, Sarah. You've got an original and creative thesis. And you're right, silence is considered a disempowering thing in our culture, even though most communication is nonverbal.
Some questions:
Just as viewing Porter's work through a postmodern lens 50 years later can be distorting, so too can viewing her work through an eastern lens. And that's totally fine. But are you also meeting the story on its own terms, in other words, taking into account the social mores of the time that it was written? Not sure exactly how you'd do that, but perhaps you could look to see if Porter was influenced by eastern philosophy in any way, perhaps in her letters.
Not sure if this plays into your thesis, but along those lines, Porter spent some time in Mexico and in Europe. Did silence have a different meaning in those cultures? And did that influence her in these stories?
Do you think that Porter's experience with an abusive husband--at a time when women didn't have much agency in that regard--influence her usage of silence as a powerful device in her stories?
What would Porter's characters have to gain by sublimating their egos? How does this provide agency in "Holiday"?
Hope those questions help and aren't too far afield from your thesis. Great topic. I think it will be a very interesting paper.
Some questions:
Just as viewing Porter's work through a postmodern lens 50 years later can be distorting, so too can viewing her work through an eastern lens. And that's totally fine. But are you also meeting the story on its own terms, in other words, taking into account the social mores of the time that it was written? Not sure exactly how you'd do that, but perhaps you could look to see if Porter was influenced by eastern philosophy in any way, perhaps in her letters.
Not sure if this plays into your thesis, but along those lines, Porter spent some time in Mexico and in Europe. Did silence have a different meaning in those cultures? And did that influence her in these stories?
Do you think that Porter's experience with an abusive husband--at a time when women didn't have much agency in that regard--influence her usage of silence as a powerful device in her stories?
What would Porter's characters have to gain by sublimating their egos? How does this provide agency in "Holiday"?
Hope those questions help and aren't too far afield from your thesis. Great topic. I think it will be a very interesting paper.
Monday, December 8, 2008
Response to Sarah's Presentation
Thesis Paraphrased: Silent narrator's and character's like Ottilie are a mechanism through which the paradoxes of silence are revealed? i.e. silence pulls the narrator and characters apart.
I really enjoyed your incorporation of postmodernity as it pertains to silence. The ways in which you incorporated Western and Eastern views as they pertain to silence were very interesting. The fact that Western ideology is very uncomfortable with the ways in which Eastern views perceive silence as a void is very interesting and very pertinent to postmodernity.
Holiday: Isolation- the ways in which you separated the various degrees of isolation was brilliant. Thinking about Ottilie as a subject was very keen and insightful. I like the ways in which you imply that Ottilie fills that void, that bridge between Eastern and Western views in that, due to childhood disease, Ottilie, within a house of isolation, is defined as the only individual precisely because she has come to embrace her isolation.
*The ultimate goal of communication is to realize the subjectivity of the individual whom you are discussing with.* This point is wonderful. I liked the ways in which you used Eastern philosophy to address this point. I think on a daily basis this is something that we, as individuals experience, yet do not realize. As a culture that values progress, we are quick to search for the value in things, the value of speech, the value of conversation. However, that is not the point that KAP makes in Holiday. Subjectivity is everything.
I really enjoyed your incorporation of postmodernity as it pertains to silence. The ways in which you incorporated Western and Eastern views as they pertain to silence were very interesting. The fact that Western ideology is very uncomfortable with the ways in which Eastern views perceive silence as a void is very interesting and very pertinent to postmodernity.
Holiday: Isolation- the ways in which you separated the various degrees of isolation was brilliant. Thinking about Ottilie as a subject was very keen and insightful. I like the ways in which you imply that Ottilie fills that void, that bridge between Eastern and Western views in that, due to childhood disease, Ottilie, within a house of isolation, is defined as the only individual precisely because she has come to embrace her isolation.
*The ultimate goal of communication is to realize the subjectivity of the individual whom you are discussing with.* This point is wonderful. I liked the ways in which you used Eastern philosophy to address this point. I think on a daily basis this is something that we, as individuals experience, yet do not realize. As a culture that values progress, we are quick to search for the value in things, the value of speech, the value of conversation. However, that is not the point that KAP makes in Holiday. Subjectivity is everything.
Sarah: Silence...: Bethany, Austin, Caroline, Vince
Author: Please post any questions you want to ask. respondents: please provide constructive feedback for the presentation.
Jessica, Humanity...Silence: Brad, Heather, Jennifer, Austin
Author: Please post any questions you want to ask. respondents: please provide constructive feedback for the presentation.
Caroline: The Surreal: Ashley, Michelle, David, Sarah
Author: Please post any questions you want to ask. respondents: please provide constructive feedback for the presentation.
Austin: Perfect Strangers: Meagan, Dana, Daniel, Jessica
Author: Please post any questions you want to ask. respondents: please provide constructive feedback for the presentation.
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